Percussionist Bill Summers described music as a “religious undertaking” when he connected with Jazz88’s Sean McPherson to discuss the recent Headhunters record and their upcoming performance at the Dakota. Summers was joined by their drummer Mike Clark and the conversation covered iconic moments from Headhunters history, the group’s current lineup and their concern for musicians who are suffering after the Los Angeles fires.

Check out a conversation between Bill Summers, Mike Clark and Jazz88’s Sean McPherson here:

This interview originally aired on The Afternoon Cruise on 1/17/25

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

I’m chatting with Bill summers and Mike Clark, two celebrated musicians and revered members of the head hunters. The head hunters are making their way back to the Twin Cities for a show on Tuesday, January 21 at the Dakota Mr. Summers and Mr. Clark. Thank you so much for chatting with jazz 88

 

Mike Clark 

Thank you. Thanks for having us. I’m honored to be here. Yeah, man.

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

All right, Bill Summers is honored. Too. Wrapped up and ready to go now, I just got to watch a beautiful interview that you did with one of my favorite broadcasters, Larry Mizell Jr, over at KEXP in Seattle. And watching that conversation, I got the feeling like the nucleus of the headhunters thing is really this long, decades long friendship between you two. And I was just sort of trying to understand, where does friendship play a role in the Headhunters, both in the past and going forward?

 

Bill Summers 

I’d like to answer that. I can answer that. Look, it’s just as important become becoming good enemies as friends, because with that, you understand each other. And I, you know, Michael, when he come forward with something, it’s like, did you deal with this? He’s very straight ahead when it comes we get, we get along extremely well. We always, you know, we can take we can check each other. We can complain to each other. You know it’s like what a marriage should be like, but it ain’t

 

Mike Clark 

Bill and I know have been playing together so long, more years than I’ve been alive, than not to where I know his foibles and he knows mine, so we know how to give each other room, and I was telling Ray Obiedo, a great guitar player from Oakland, where we’re all from. Bill’s from Detroit, but he lived in Oakland so long that to me, he’s from Oakland, that Bill is one of my favorite people, and I can’t imagine not being on the planet without bill, because I can always call him with my deepest, weirdest stuff, and we work together. Bill has a such a great feel that he can, I can play my kinkiest, craziest stuff, and he telegraphs. He can, he can. What’s the word I’m looking for, I’m sorry. I’m telegraph was good, yeah, you know, you can translate it into common sense, even though it’s not really.

 

Bill Summers 

In other words, he’s telling you, I’m a stupid dude. You can send a message. A parrot can talk, but they don’t know what the hell they saying.

 

Mike Clark 

Well, Bill just has a wonderful feel in the rhythm section, you know, and some people are great at technique, and some people are great at and I’m not just bragging on bill here, but now that you said that, I feel like talking about this a little bit. So he’s also an innovator as a percussionist, an innovator, and I think he’s an amazing artist, and he’s it. And all comes from instinct. I mean, he does study. What I feel from his is his gut is instinct when we play, and that’s my favorite world. I I live by instincts. I don’t I should think things through a little more than I do, and it’s all done by gut with me. You know, anyway, that’s my that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

You’re with the afternoon cruise here on jazz88 and I’m chatting with the Headhunters. Let’s talk a little bit about the sax player you have with you, Donald Harrison, who I know, Mike Clark, you are outspoken about feeling like this gentleman is our times. Donald Byrd, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, and I just, I want to ask you guys now play with him and make incredible music with Donald Harrison. What is it like to feel like you’re working with a generational talent like Mr. Harrison?

 

Mike Clark 

You know, when I play with Donald. My interest all my life, since eight years old, is jazz. I’m known for playing with the headhunters funk. And I love doing that. I do. It’s very creative and very we’re making it up night by night. It’s never the same two nights in a row. I mean, I play backwards, inside out, upside down, and whatever I think about it’s wonderful. But my main interest has always been bebop and post bop. And for me, I hear all of the roots of what Donald is doing, where he’s coming from, what he’s listens to, this, that, and the other so on the jazz tip, I can come out of anything at any time, sort of disguised underneath the funk. And he kept he hears everything. Very seldom do I hear a guy that’s got as much soul as Donald Harrison. I mean, in every way, in every breath, and even just sitting around eating. I mean, this cat is the real deal, period.

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

Now. Mike Clark, I wanted to ask you about a particular drum performance of yours that I’m very partial to on the internet. It seems like what I’m supposed to. Really admire from the thrust record is actual proof. But what people always played for me was Palm Grease that I had a dorm advisor freshman year. He said, You have to hear this. And I’ve never stopped hearing it. There’s a pace and a space to that part where you’re driving the band, not the other way around. Can you tell me a little bit about that drum part and recording thrust

 

Mike Clark 

You mean on palm grease, palm grease. What did I say? I thought you said palm grease.

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

I think I said palm grease. We’re talking palm grease.

 

Mike Clark 

Did you say palm grease?

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

grease? I think I said palm grease.

 

Bill Summers 

I think you greased his palm!

 

Mike Clark 

As I remember it, Herbie said, we played the way Paul and I normally play. When we started palm grease, it was pretty much like, sort of like a slower version of actual proof, we broke all the rhythms up. If you have any hot sauce here, please. Thank you. My wife has just made me breakfast while we’re talking, and I’m famished. I’m jet lagged. I just got back from my own tour Europe. Alright, that being bragged about a little bit on the side. Let me just say this. Herbie was like, well, that’s cool, but I want this to be a little more pocket orientated. Can you come up with a groove? And I just went, how’s this? And I just spit that thing out. It wasn’t like a groove I played before. I sort of made it up right on this one. You went, great. And we recorded it. And that’s it. And the thing is interesting about Hancock is, and he got this from miles, is he didn’t do, you know, he wasn’t erotic about everything. It was very it was very natural, one or two takes, you are done jack, and I was brand new to all this time. Like, I thought it should be 8000 takes until you get it perfect, and overdubs. He’s like, Nah, that we everything we did. The actual proof was one take. Butterfly was two takes. Palm griefs, I believe, was one take. And I’m like, Okay, we’re starting to sound pretty good. Are we going to do it again? And he’s like, Nah, it’s cool. That’s it. I’m like, it’s cool. What? So that’s where I learned about that. And there were no real recording sounds. One of the few drummers I heard with those dead sounding tom toms. Was Harvey Mason. I was at street jazz drummer, so I just brought my drum set in out of the trunk of the car, and I didn’t think about the funk sound or the this. I just set it up and played it and so this was early time, so there was no words like pocket and, you know, all of these things we that engineers have came up with describe what we do. And nothing wrong with that. I’m just saying that none of that was there. So this was all super creative early times. Some of it’s rough around the edges, but we were making it up. Bill, to all of us, Paul, right on the spot. We didn’t really know what, perfectly, what we were doing. It wasn’t like, Okay, I’m gonna play this. Then we go the bridge. I’m gonna play that. It was like a jazz gig, man. You just playing?

 

Bill Summers 

Hey, man, let me say something about that tune, you know, like, see Paul Jackson. Very few people really know who Paul Jackson is. If you live in Oakland, you know I was, I played with Paul, and he played, he was playing trombone in a band, and I was playing sax in Oakland. So he was multifaceted, and people didn’t really know, in general, how talented this guy was, and he and Michael were like two mad scientists, and they would get together and do things musically to kind of confuse other people. They couldn’t figure out where one was. But sometimes Michael and Paul would switch that up. They would make the one the back beat. They could do it on a like, instantaneously, just, just just, you know, flabbergasted audience, what the hell just happened? You know, it was sunshiny, then rain. You know, Michael came up with this dude, and it was where he placed that hi hat, open hi hat that flipped it, you know, that made it so unique. But no one knew what it was. Amazing stuff.

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

I couldn’t agree more. I mean, it’s some of the most incredible music put to tape. And I’m so honored to be talking with the head hunters, and they’re coming to town. They’re playing on the 21st and they’re supporting a new recording called the stunt man, which is a beautiful release. My question for you is, as you were recording the stunt man, what was the song that let you know this project has some legs, this thing is going to work. I

 

Bill Summers 

I don’t think like that. I’m sorry. I’m sorry, man, you know, we play music like, it’s like. A a religious undertaking. And I’m not thinking about it being a hit or not. Every song is special. None is better than the next. It is a group effort. It’s a family affair, and when we play music, it’s like going to Holy Communion. You see what I’m saying? It’s deeper than than you can imagine we, we time travel. We actually travel through not the universe, but universe says, when we play together, it’s more than a connection. It’s more than music. It’s It’s language and love and and spirituality and breakfast and lunch, dinner and sex all rolled up into one

 

Mike Clark 

Man. I’d like to add something here, if I may. First of all, I second that emotion, all that that Bill just said, I amen on all of that. I look at it the same way. Each tune is equally as important and as an adventure that I’m trying to go on and do my I love all of it and but I gotta say this. I wanted to mention it two guys. We have a wonderful bassist, Chris Severin who’s amazing.Bass players in Minneapolis, come out and check this cat out. I’m sure you’ve heard him on records and all that. But live, he’s as deep as it gets. I mean, he makes up stuff. He turns on a dime. He has to deal with me, which ain’t easy, and he does it with grace. Also, we have a new guy on piano that’s just going to come out and jump on the stage and play. He does know the music. We’ve sent him the music. His name is shape here, and I’ve done a jazz gig with him and Donald Harrison at Anug harbor in New Orleans. I think this guy’s great, and I think he’s going to open the rhythm section up in this band, because he’s a jazz cat. And let’s face it, so is Mr. Hancock. So it wasn’t just funk. There’s another element here. We have African we have Afro Cuban. We got funk, we got jazz, you know, and we have the event. We flirt with the avant garde as well. And so this guy is going to jump into the fire, and I know he can do it because I played, I also played a fun gig with him one time, and he he can play, man. So I’m really excited about this guy, and I’m always anxious to play with Chris, and he fits with Bill. And I perfectly like the like. There’s very seldom a lag or a question mark. It just seems to most of the head hunter stuff, even though to some people, some of it may be simple, and others it may be very complicated, because we go in and out of whatever. But excuse me, most of the stuff we do is organic, so we feel each other, and that’s how we roll, you know. And by that, I don’t mean we play a steady pocket or we do it. We do what we want to do all of us, but we Coltrane and Elvin, they allowed each other that width and that open air and that breath so that the cats could breathe. And now, like, if I hear Bill trying to do something and accomplish something musically, well then I give him that room, and I don’t jump in there and block it, you know. I’m like, go ahead, bro. I’m here. I got you say he does the same for me. He’s like, okay, there goes, Mike. He’s going on some wild you know,

 

 

yeah, Mike, on on responsive that you just said, There’s something I play. I play anyway I play an instrument that but anyway I play an instrument. Michael says to the audience, sometimes it says, Yes, play that groove. Play that groove you play on the shekere. I don’t know what it is about this group that I play that excites Michael so much. I mean, it’s just something regular for me, but, but he makes it something special. You know,

 

Mike Clark 

you make it something special, you’ll hear it when we do the show. It’s so funky. It represents everything about the music that I love in one fell swoop, and when Bill’s feeling it, oh, my goodness, I sit back there, classes up. I’m like, what’s going on? Oh, one other thing, say hello to Anthony Cox. I love that cat man. We did many tours together back in the day. And who’s that drummer that’s up there? Newton. Newty, no, how do you say that? I sorry if I Knudson. Gordie Knudson, oh, man, he’s a bad boy, man.

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

Thank you so much for taking time to chat with jazz 88 the headhunters coming through town on january 21 That’s Tuesday, January 21 at the Dakota. Mr. Summers, Mr. Clark, thank you so much for chatting with jazz 88 and thank you for all the beautiful music you’ve given to the world.  And we can’t wait.

 

Mike Clark 

Thanks, Sean.

 

Bill Summers 

We’re not finished.

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

I know there’s more coming, Mr. Summers, and I can’t wait to hear it.

 

Bill Summers 

And don’t call me Mr. Summers,

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

okay, Bill, I can’t wait to hear new music from you. Bill, all right.

 

Mike Clark 

You know what can I say one last thing? Oh, yeah, yeah. I was talking to Ray, the great guitar player, Ray Obiedo today. But many great musicians that we love lost their homes and all their stuff and everything, so I don’t know what to do about it. I’m going to send a little bit of money, whatever I can but, but I’m definitely sending prayers to all the people in LA that went through this apocalyptic, whatever you want to call it, it’s absolutely on my mind. So I’m going to try to use this gig to play, I don’t know what this means, or it sounds a little I don’t want to sound silly, but to play music for my love and for my concern of all that’s going on out there. I’ve been in Europe while all this was going on and trying to pick up bits and pieces of information I was, I mean, I’m not as devastated as they are. You know, I live in New York, so I’m not going through what those people are going through. But it really kicked my butt to see this happen. I just wanted to put that out there. It’s on my mind. Michael, were you just Who were you just talking about? Well, John Clayton, Benny Maupin and Joel Taylor. A lot of our friends lost their homes out there exactly, exactly. And so I, I’m very I’m concerned. I don’t want to sound like, you know, because it didn’t happen to me. So I don’t know what it feels like but I’ll tell you one thing, from where I’m sitting, it’s bothering me deeply. I’m I’m praying about it. I’m a Buddhist. I’m chanting about it, you know. And I don’t know what I can do anyway. I don’t even know what.

 

Bill Summers 

Before we go, Mike, I want to say something. This is the most important thing about the Headhunters, is that we care about everybody. One of the people that Michael mentioned hurt Michael financially, and he But Michael is turning it around and saying, I need to help this person. He hurt me. That’s That’s it. That’s the most important lesson that we can learn about being around these men is their dedication to goodness.

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

it’s the right spirit to have, especially at this time. Thank you for bringing that into the conversation. Mike Clark, thank you, Bill summers, for your spirit and your guidance and your enthusiasm. I’ll never call you Mr. Summers again. I just appreciate what you do, my friend. And can’t wait to catch

 

Bill Summers 

don’t call me Willie, though. Okay, you got it?

 

Sean McPherson (Jazz88) 

I got I got a clear Bill summers alley that I’m comfortable in, and I’ll stay right there. Have a beautiful rest of your day, and we’ll catch you on the 21st at the Dakota.  Have a good one, my friends. All right.

 

Mike Clark 

You too, brother.

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